Honda Fit EV Forum and Electric Car Forum

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 Post subject: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:54 pm
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Whereas it used to cost around 1$ for about a 6 kwh [1 hr] of charge, now it will cost triple that. [My math: I usually charge at around 24 amps/240v at Blink stations, so 24 x 240 = 5.76 kwh/hr (for 1$) under the old charge rates. The new charge rates will be 5.76 x $0.49 = $2.80/kwh at the $0.39 rate noted below, possibly much higher if it were at the 0.79/hr rate.] Electric rates here are around $0.12/kwh residentially, for reference. So, to completely charge the Honda Fit's 20 kwh battery (say 18 kwr, because they are seldom totally discharged) it will cost 18 x 0.49 = $9 per session. That changes everything and will discourage ownership.

From Blink: "Fees for Level 2 EV charging stations owned by Blink and operated on the Blink Network in kWh eligible states will range from $0.39 to $0.79 per kWh, depending on the state and individual’s membership status. Fees for DCFC chargers owned by Blink and operated on the Blink Network in kWh eligible state will range from $0.49 to $0.69 per kWh, depending on the state and individual’s membership status."

Aeroenvironment greatly increased their rates a while ago, and I stopped using them, because I had Blink EV options, as well. These price increases will affect the desirability of electric cars for many who regularly use paid charging stations.


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:28 pm
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Location: Oregon
Not surprising as $1/hr does not even come close to covering costs.

CarCharging (who owns Blink) lost $5.60 for every kWh they sold in the latest results. The decimal point is correct, over five dollars loss on every kWh delivered.

In the second quarter, they had sales of $61K, service revenue of $316K, grant and rebate revenue of $569K.
Costs of revenue were over $1.5M, so they show a loss of $600K+ on sales alone. Operating expenses were another $7.3 million. so total loss for the quarter was close to $8 million dollars.

If they triple their prices (and don't lose customers) it would add $122K to the bottom line. I'm not sure that even counts as a drop in the bucket.

The real question, is public charging economically viable? Are people willing to pay the true costs of the electricty, hardware to deliver it, and the operating costs associated with it (permits, service of the equipment, salaries, etc.).

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2014 #262


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:54 pm
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I think you hit the nail on the head with "Is public charging viable?" Since most of us do 90% of our charging at home, many/most of the charging stations are seldom used. The 440v chargers may up the utility a bit (but not for us Fit EV owners, of course.) I would like to see a usage map of the public charging stations. No doubt some of them are hardly used at all. Of course, some were initially installed in very undesirable locations--no cure for that.

http://luskin.ucla.edu/sites/default/fi ... ations.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Urban public charging stations will never have a future. Even though most electric cars have a range of around 80 miles, most of us don't push those limits on a regular basis where we need a recharge on the go. We do it at home. I use Blink occasionally when I need to, but it has been around 3 or 4 times over the past year. Someday when mainstream electric cars can go further these pay stations will never see use.

The only future I see for making money on car charging will be fast chargers along major long distance freeways. You will pull into a huge parking lot with dozens of quick charge stations to refill your 250 mile range car with enough juice to carry you another 200 miles. There will be coffee shops and fast food restaurants to occupy your time while you car recharges to 80% capacity in 30 minutes.

In contrast the corner city gas station will close down and become new mini-malls. There won't be any local demand for electric car charging as everyone will have a station at the their home, condominium, or apartment.


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:24 am
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Location: SoCal
evelectricity wrote:
The only future I see for making money on car charging will be fast chargers along major long distance freeways. You will pull into a huge parking lot with dozens of quick charge stations to refill your 250 mile range car with enough juice to carry you another 200 miles. There will be coffee shops and fast food restaurants to occupy your time while you car recharges to 80% capacity in 30 minutes.

Some rich futurist entrepreneur should take up your idea and make an electric car that will go 250 miles on a single charge. Then he could put those fast-charge stations all across the country, so people could take their electric cars virtually anywhere on long trips!

I think it would make more sense, though, to charge a lot of money for those cars--say, $80,000 to $100,000--and throw in the charging stations as a perk. But I guess then it would be debatable as to whether he would be "making money on car charging"!

Nah, it would never happen. Heck, somebody like that would probably be more apt to build rocket ships! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Location: Northern California
It seems to me that the the primary costs of these stations ends up being the initial cost of the charging stations themselves, and then their care and feeding, and tracking of billing. For low-usage stations (the majority), the electricity may be the smallest fraction of the overall cost. It would be cheaper to just provide 240v outlets and let people use their own EVSEs, and then recoup the costs of installing those outlets plus the cost of electricity itself by placing shopping nearby. Simple = Cheap.

Europe has it so much better -- the ubiquitous outlet is 240v, although perhaps only 20A capable.

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2013 Fit EV #151, delivered 11/17/12 (30K mi)
2011 Nissan LEAF, delivered 9/11/11 (27K mi)


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:36 am 
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Maybe i am missing something here, but i thot uncle sam was on board this whole EV thing and was subsidizing it in a big way to get it going. eg $7500 buyers credit, and the supposed electric hiway (WA/OR/CA). I always assumed BLINK was heavily subsidized by big govt. Obviously there is no $$$ in charging stations otherwise. Help me out here. FIT EV 2014 #247.... in Wilderville Oregon go Ducks !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:54 pm
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I think most of the subsidies for EV charging stations were only for the initial installations, and they are no longer subsidized.

If you go to a Beaver game in Corvallis you will find many convenient charging stations in the parking garage across from Gill Colliseum (but you'd probably have to be Beaver season ticket holder to park there ha ha.) Not so handy at Autzen! I had season tickets to the Beaver games last year, but could never get all the way to Corvallis from Portland, always got an hour charge in Woodburn or Salem to make sure I could reach all the way to Corvallis. Fall weather diminished battery performance a bit--I could probably make it non-stop in the summer.

Getting used to the range thing (after 12k miles.) Drove from Tillamook (where I recharged) to Portland this morning without recharging along the way, had 8 miles left when I got it to my garage in the John's Landing area of Portland.


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:47 am 
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Over time, I have reported numerous Blink 220v EV charging stations as being inoperative in my Portland, Oregon driving area. To my knowledge none has ever been repaired. I speculate there just is not enough revenue to warrant maintaining them and that the installed base of numerous 220v EV charging stations will just be allowed to wink out, one by one. Of course, the 220v charging model isn't as useful as the 440v stations--220v takes too long. I suspect that the 440v stations--being far more practical--will persist, and that the 220v stations will just be left to just fade away. As will the Honda Fit. Evolve or die, the saying goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Blink EV Charging Network triples EV Charging costs
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:35 pm
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Location: los angeles
sure its not blink, but just the other week i used a chargpoint charger for the first time in 39,500 ev miles.
when i walked up to the station and saw that it was $2.00/hour i almost said screw it. it did not seem worth the price for some range piece of mind.

...i did it anyhow. pay to charge stations dont really seem like a great business venture because realistically its only going to be used in an emergency range situation where you have plenty of time to kill. this case it was at my offices parking lot, so the car was sitting their anyhow. if i were trying to drive someplace very far i doubt i would wait at a public charger mid trip. i would, and have, rented a ICE car and grumbled about how i hate gas cars now.

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