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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:52 am
Posts: 387
Location: Massachusetts
Quentin,

I tried everything and really enjoyed the car for 2.5 years (except in the worst winter days), but it clearly was not a match for our winters, in my situation, so I ended my lease early and moved on to a VW e-Golf, which has been like night and day in comparison.

I realize this is the Fit EV forum, but I have to ask... Are you dead set on it? There's certainly other options out there for EVs in the same class right now that will handle your situation better, including the e-Golf and the 30kWh LEAF. These also support DC fast charging, which makes a significant difference. Or, if you can wait a bit, you can opt for the Chevy Bolt or the Tesla Model 3 (ok, that could be longer than 'a bit').

Just one other point... The MOR-EV program seems awfully close to exhausting its funding, unless it gets more. Last I checked, it only had enough funds for another 65 rebates or so (at $2,500 each).

Just food for thought... PM me if you want to talk further...


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 1:27 pm
Posts: 88
igbright wrote:
Quentin,

I tried everything and really enjoyed the car for 2.5 years (except in the worst winter days), but it clearly was not a match for our winters, in my situation, so I ended my lease early and moved on to a VW e-Golf, which has been like night and day in comparison.

I realize this is the Fit EV forum, but I have to ask... Are you dead set on it? There's certainly other options out there for EVs in the same class right now that will handle your situation better, including the e-Golf and the 30kWh LEAF. These also support DC fast charging, which makes a significant difference. Or, if you can wait a bit, you can opt for the Chevy Bolt or the Tesla Model 3 (ok, that could be longer than 'a bit').

Just one other point... The MOR-EV program seems awfully close to exhausting its funding, unless it gets more. Last I checked, it only had enough funds for another 65 rebates or so (at $2,500 each).

Just food for thought... PM me if you want to talk further...


Thanks for the reply....well, for me (quite honestly) this is a bit of a grand experiement. Perhaps I don't have enough challenge in my life, I am not sure. they are going though.




But really....I think it comes from my being an Engineer and wanting to see the sort of adaptions one has to make to use an EV. I don't really want to own one because i see them as evolving too quickly, and therefore probably having a lower than typical % resale value.....and I am not sure any of these cars today have the longevity that I fully expect from any ICE car these days, (for example, I own a 2010 Kia RIO that I bought new in 2011 as a factory left-over that I bought for about $7000.......I currently have 185,000 miles on it and should get to over 200,000 at about years end if I don't get the electric Fit....which I hope I do)

Anyways......i suppose my reasons are a little odd.....but how I own cars has always been "odd" to most as I typically drive them unto the ground.

I am a bit surprised that you say the eGolf should have a longer range in cold weather because it is "rated" as an 83 mile car, and the Fit EV is rated as an 82 mile car. So what you are saying is that the battery chemistry and design is superior in cold weather.....and I am a bit surprised since the battery university description of the Fit EV battery chemistry is that it is "lower density" than others (like in the leaf) but that is balanced by it being better at lower temperatures.....do you KNOW the eGolf to have better low temperature capabilities? (or does it have something to do with t perhaps having a heat pump as opposed to resistive heaters.....I am not sure why it would be so different.

Anyways.....I am just leaving work right now....I would like to talk with you a bit because I am actually interested in this subject.....as well as "how quickly" the range falls off the table as the cold sweeps in.

Thanks,
-Quentin


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:52 am
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Location: Massachusetts
I definitely do know the e-Golf to have significantly better cold-weather performance than the Fit EV, having owned (ok, leased) both... 2.5 years with the Fit EV, 9 months, so far, with the e-Golf.

I was surprised at the difference because their EPA-rated range is almost the same, as you note. But the e-Golf's battery is 24kWh to the Fit's 20 and it actually routinely delivers far better range than expected - it will easily go 100 miles on a charge without trying too hard. In the winter, I've never seen the range drop below 50-60 miles (and the GOM turns out to be reasonably accurate). Some of that is definitely due to the heat pump. That makes a huge difference. But I'm sure there's other factors as well, including the battery design, given the difference in real-world range when driving both cars in similar, non-winter conditions. I realize that the battery capacity difference isn't, in itself, meaningful - there are many other factors involved. But I suspect a 20% larger pack capacity doesn't hurt. I'm not a battery engineer, so perhaps someone else can analyze this better from a technical standpoint...


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:28 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Oregon
It's interesting that the ratings are so similar, but the e-Golf pack is 20% bigger. The Fit EV comes in at 118 MPGe, and the e-Golf at 116.

A few observations that may (or may not) help

It seems to me that there is no standard or rule on reporting total battery capacity vs. usable capacity. Some manufacturers provide this info, other do not. The BMW i3 has a 21.6 kWh battery with 18.8 usable. The 18.8 number is then used in the EPA calculations (81 mile range, 124 MPGe). From what I can tell, the Fit EV lets us use about 18.5 of the reported 20 kWh pack size, but the EPA numbers are likely based on the 20 kWh figure.

There are also different methods that manufacturers can use to generate the range/MPGe numbers.
The mos common when the Fit EV was brought to market was running the city and highway tests and multiplying the results by .7 "to more accurately reflect the values that customers can expect to achieve in the real world".

Newer EV's are more likely to use the 5 cycle test that includes not only City/Highway, but High Speed, Air Conditioning and Cold Weather test cycles.

The two methods could very well produce very different results, and I suspect the 5 cycle test would be more accurate.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA%20test%20procedure%20for%20EVs-PHEVs-7-5-2012.pdf
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 197
Location: Orange County, New York
Quentin, the problem with having to stop for a charge during your commute is the time it will take without a quick charge port on the Fit. It also depends on how cold the winter gets. The winter before last was brutal with a number of mornings well below zero for me. That was unusual and this past winter was milder and so I took the Fit more often to work. As long as you have a backup ICE vehicle you'll be OK. My unscientific estimate is that my 35 mile commute is doable as long as the temperature is in double digits. I always have the heat on in winter, one fan bar and usually set at 59-60, which has been fine with a coat and gloves on.

I realize I've just jinxed you and we should probably be prepared for a record cold winter in the northeast. :)

Drew

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Posts: 88
Dtomko wrote:
Quentin, the problem with having to stop for a charge during your commute is the time it will take without a quick charge port on the Fit. It also depends on how cold the winter gets. The winter before last was brutal with a number of mornings well below zero for me. That was unusual and this past winter was milder and so I took the Fit more often to work. As long as you have a backup ICE vehicle you'll be OK. My unscientific estimate is that my 35 mile commute is doable as long as the temperature is in double digits. I always have the heat on in winter, one fan bar and usually set at 59-60, which has been fine with a coat and gloves on.

I realize I've just jinxed you and we should probably be prepared for a record cold winter in the northeast. :)

Drew


Well...you are the third person who has quote a 35 mile maximum range in the cold of winter.....I believe you all, really I do. I am planning on having a back-up car, but I of course do not want to have the Fit EV just sit there for the whole winter.......and yes, I know that taking even an hour to add those "few" extra miles needed to make it all the way to work (or home) would be a horrible expense to an already long 90 minute commute....so I am trying to NOT think about that as a typical occurrence.....maybe I am not thinking straight.

I am actually quite shocked by the huge range loss from the cold.....I was thinking that a 40% loss would be reasonable....and what I mean by that, 40% loss w/o the use of ANY heat.....but the 35 mile range that people talk to me about is with NO HEAT, and that is about a 57% loss of range....almost a 60% loss....that is quite a bit larger than I thought it could be. (I am not sure how that makes it practical in any very cold climates)

Well....I am still excited to try it.....I am simply going to condition my mind for winter disappointment.....maybe I can come up with a scheme where I only drive it "part-way" to day a co-workers house where I swap to my ICE car and put it on charge there.....it all sounds crazy I know....maybe I am crazy.....but I guess I like the challenge. (or maybe I am a masochist??? :-( )

-Quentin


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:54 am 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 1:27 pm
Posts: 88
Hi All,

I promise I will try to NOT be delusional with cold weather range.....but I just found this post and it instantly gave me hope! I will have to read it VERY carefully to look for all the "secrets" to his long range:
http://www.myhondafitev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=779

It looks to me as though speeds between 30mph and 40 mph would be optimal, and of course slow and steady acceleration.

-Quentin


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here from Lexington, Massachusetts area?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:49 am
Posts: 197
Location: Orange County, New York
Mike has done amazing things with the car. I think all of us in cold climates were surprised by the range loss in winter. I am still extremely happy with the car and was delighted to re-up for another two years. Sport mode is a lot of fun in the warm weather :D

Drew

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Deposit put down 6-11-13
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